Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha256; boundary="B_3735758293_3523780781" --B_3735758293_3523780781 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable On 5/18/22, 22:05, "'=E8=B5=B5=E8=BF=90=E7=A3=8A' via pqc-forum" wrote: > Dear Uri: > Thanks for your interest in our CTRU and OSKR works. Thank you for publishing it! > (1)For OSKR, we have implementations in C, AVX2, ARM Cortex-M4. > For CTRU, we currently only have reference implementations in C, > but we are optimizing the implementations in C and AVX, which > should be given in the near future. Excellent! Are those implementations Open Source? Freely available? If so, could you please point me at them? If it isn't Open Source at this point - may I suggest considering open-sourcing at least some of them? > If needed, we can send the implementation codes in a private mail. That would be very nice, thank you! > (2)For patents, yes, all our proposals are under patent protection now. > As mentioned, we hold patents mainly for protection to be against > discredits. Yes, I understand. There are two concerns here. One is the IPR that you hol= d - and the following is addressing it. The other one is about alleged pate= nt claims against algorithms like Kyber - and whether those same claims cou= ld be alleged against OSKR or CTRU. > If needed, I will do my best to coordinate towards a positive > outputs for freely using our proposal. I cannot speak for NIST, but I think it would benefit the process and incre= ase the chances for success, if there were an official statement - and a NI= ST lawyer could probably describe what it should say to alleviate any conce= rns. I think in the past, big companies that held patents made statements l= ike "if our invention is included in the standard, we allow anybody using i= t free use of our intellectual property, on condition that holders of other= patents involved in this standard will allow free use of theirs". Maybe so= mething like this - unfortunately, it is something=20 Thank you! > -----=E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: "Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL" > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2022-05-19 01:53:21 (=E6=98=9F= =E6=9C=9F=E5=9B=9B) > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: "=E8=B5=B5=E8=BF=90=E7=A3=8A" > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: "pqc-forum@list.nist.gov" > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [pqc-forum] More clarifications about patents >=20 > Dear Yunlei, >=20 > Thank you for your proposals - they are very interesting. I have a fe= w questions. >=20 > 1. Are there reference implementations of CTRU, OSKR, and others? Opt= imized implementations? >=20 > 2. Would your proposed algorithms, such as OSKR, still be potential s= ubjects to the same patent claims that, e.g., Kyber is dealing with? >=20 > 3. You (University, Company, etc.) have some patents covering CTRU, O= SKR, and other algorithms that you proposed. It is nice that your email sta= ted: "we would like to give up all the patents for using our proposals. We = hold the patents only for protection." Not being a lawyer, I cannot evaluat= e whether that statement is sufficient from legal point of view. Would the = patent(s) holders be willing to make a more "official" statement to that ex= tent? >=20 > Please feel free to answer on this mailing list, or privately - as yo= u prefer. >=20 > Thank you! > --=20 > V/R, > Uri > =20 >=20 > On 5/12/22, 12:03, "'=E8=B5=B5=E8=BF=90=E7=A3=8A' via pqc-forum" wrote: >=20 > Dear Prof. Bernstein and dear all in PQC community: >=20 > Here, we would like to make the patent issues clearer.=20 >=20 > For all the KEM schemes based on LWE/MLWE/LWR/MLWR, they actually= have the same scheme structures. The key differences can be well interpret= ed w.r.t what are referred to as the Con/Rec mechanism in=20 > https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.06150 (as well as in our KCL proposal)= . Every KEM based on LWE/MLWE/LWR/MLWR implies a Con/Rec mechanism. The dif= ference between LWE\MLWE-based KEM and LWR\MLWR-based KEM is that Con/Rec i= n LWE\MLWE-based is w.r.t. the modulus $q$, but Con/Rec in LWR\MLWR-based i= s w.r.t the compression parameter $p$. The Con/Rec implied by Frodo is ju= st one previously proposed, but it is not optimal (as a consequence Frodo d= oes not violate our patents). To the best of our knowledge, AKCN in https:= //arxiv.org/abs/1611.06150 (as well as in our KCL proposal) is the first on= e that is proved to be optimal. The Con/Rec mechanisms in Kyber and Saber a= re also optimal in correcting errors, but Rec in Kyber involves an unnecess= ary rounding operation which makes it less efficient and more error-prone (= the Con of AKCN and that of Kyber are the same). Con/Rec of AKCN-MLWE and S= aber are essentially the same, but w.r.t. the compression parameter $p$ in = Saber. These differences can be clearly noted from the mentioned two arXi= v reports:=20 >=20 > https://arxiv.org/abs/2109.02893 >=20 > https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.06150 >=20 > Finally, we would like to stress again we hold all the patents on= ly for protection against credit (not for economic reasons). We hope the ab= ove clarifications could make the situation clearer. >=20 > All my best > Yunlei >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----=E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6----- > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: "D. J. Bernstein" > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2022-05-12 20:55:14 (=E6= =98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E5=9B=9B) > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: pqc-forum@list.nist.gov > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:=20 > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: On the possibility of achieving NIST se= curity goals with the recent advances of dual attacksRe: Re: [pqc-forum] Im= proved Dual Lattice Attack > >=20 > > '=E8=B5=B5=E8=BF=90=E7=A3=8A' via pqc-forum writes: > > > The recent advances of dual attacks might bring the worry the > > > possibility of achieving the security goals set by NIST for > > > lattice-based KEM schemes, particularly on dimension of 512. = Our > > > recent work shows it may still be possible, but with optimize= d > > > constructions. > >=20 > > Can you please comment on what's covered by your patents relate= d to this > > work? I noticed that your patents > >=20 > > https://patents.google.com/patent/CN107566121A/en > > https://patents.google.com/patent/CN108173643B/en > >=20 > > were reported in the KCL/OKCN/AKCN/CNKE submission, which is ve= ry > > similar to "NewHope without reconciliation". The patents were f= iled a > > month before "NewHope without reconciliation" was published, an= d I > > haven't seen any analysis of the patent coverage. > >=20 > > It would be useful to see public assurances as to your company'= s > > position regarding usage of "NewHope without reconciliation" an= d its > > variants, such as Kyber, SABER, and your latest proposals. > >=20 > > ---D. J. Bernstein > >=20 > > --=20 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goo= gle Groups "pqc-forum" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from i= t, send an email to pqc-forum+unsubscribe@list.nist.gov. > > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.= com/a/list.nist.gov/d/msgid/pqc-forum/20220512125514.219585.qmail%40cr.yp.t= o. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Googl= e Groups "pqc-forum" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,= send an email to pqc-forum+unsubscribe@list.nist.gov. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.co= m/a/list.nist.gov/d/msgid/pqc-forum/5a91d094.8ba5.180b902887e.Coremail.ylzh= ao%40fudan.edu.cn. >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gr= oups "pqc-forum" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, sen= d an email to pqc-forum+unsubscribe@list.nist.gov. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/= list.nist.gov/d/msgid/pqc-forum/740E846A-A9A9-4CC3-BD7E-8C5FF3DD4F3E%40ll.m= it.edu. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "pqc-forum" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send = an email to pqc-forum+unsubscribe@list.nist.gov. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/li= st.nist.gov/d/msgid/pqc-forum/2d0f4351.70e6.180da0f8e96.Coremail.ylzhao%40f= udan.edu.cn. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pqc-forum" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pqc-forum+unsubscribe@list.nist.gov. 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